Thought leader and human resources expert Professor Stella Nkomo of the University of Pretoria (UP) chatted to Oscar-winning actress and businesswoman Gwyneth Paltrow on her lifestyle podcast Goop, about a recently republished book that the UP academic co-authored.

Prof Nkomo, who holds a strategic appointment in the Department of Human Resource Management at UP’s Faculty of Economic and Management Sciences, was joined by co-author Dr Ella Bell Smith of the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth College in the US to discuss their book, Our Separate Ways: Black and White Women and the Struggle for Professional Identity.

Our Separate Ways is a groundbreaking, timely contribution that offers insight into the ongoing discourse within management research on how race, gender, class, power and inequality shape our workplaces, careers and relationships with colleagues. In the book, the authors document a critical framework for exploring the intersection of race and gender at work, by comparing and contrasting the compelling life stories of 120 black and white women managers in America. One of their most striking findings, they say, was “the lack of sisterhood, mistrust and authority issues that arise within places of work.”

The authors further contend that “white women have a glass ceiling, while black women have a concrete wall”. While many often believe that gender is a common denominator for women, the book shows that it is not as powerful as people often expect it to be. “Culture is culture and being a black woman is, in fact, a racialised gender experience, which is not the same,” the authors say.

To Paltrow’s question on how women can dismantle competitiveness and create sisterhood across racial lines, the authors agreed that the establishment of authentic relationships and trust among women was the answer. They added that there is a need for risk-takers to open up and seek to truly understand whiteness and the racial frame of being a black woman.

As to what the authors would recommend business leaders consider when it comes to diversity, Prof Nkomo stated that leaders should look at who is working for the organisation and ensure that people are not stuck in stereotypical roles. Leaders should pay more attention to the qualitative aspects of the workforce profile than to the numbers, while ensuring that all employees feel a sense of belonging within the workplace.

All the women agreed that while race will always be a shadow within society, people need to be brave and start conversations in order to reach greater understanding.

Click here to listen to the podcast.