In this profile, we spotlight Theo de Jager, Audit Executive in the Product Solutions Cluster at ABSA Group Limited. Having already made his mark in various top financial sector positions, his business and professional goals are simply to continue contributing to the country.  “I don’t feel like I have an ultimate ‘dream job’ – I feel every job I have had to date has been an ultimate dream job, like the one I have at present. I try to live in the moment and enjoy the good and tough times of any job, because through this comes growth to prepare you for the next ‘dream job’. Whatever I am living now, is something I could only dream of a couple of years ago.” Among other things, read more about his academic and career achievements, his hopes and aspirations for South Africa.

Q: Briefly summarise your studies (including the qualifications you obtained) and your professional career, with special mention of specific highlights/milestones.

A: Qualifications

2000 - 2002: BCom (Accounting Sciences).

2003: BCom (Hons) (Accounting Sciences, nowadays a Postgraduate Diploma in Accounting Sciences) and Certificate in the Theory of Accounting (CTA).

2004 - 2009: MCom (Taxation).

Deloitte articles: 2004 - 2006 (of which the first year of my articles was at the University of Pretoria as an academic article clerk).

2007: Worked at Deloitte, Portland, USA, for five months.

2007: After returning from the USA, I returned to Deloitte as a manager in the Accounting & Auditing (A&A) Technical division.

2010: Until September 2018: Standard Bank Group, where I held various positions in the Internal Audit department. First as a senior manager, and then I was promoted to executive in 2014.

October 2018: Joined Absa as Head of Audit for the Corporate and Investment Bank. I did that for just over four years. I then swopped portfolios with one of my colleagues, and I now look after Home Loans, Vehicle and Asset Finance and all the insurance businesses for Absa.

Why did I move from External Audit, where I always thought I would become an audit partner, to Internal Audit? Somewhere in 2008, I met the Group Chief Internal Auditor of Standard Bank at a social event. He and his wife had relocated from the UK so that he could take up this job at Standard Bank, and over the course of the year, we became friends. And then started talking to me about joining Internal Audit at Standard Bank and later on basically nagged me to do so. To which my response was – having had a chip on my shoulder being a CA – “Why would I work in Internal Audit if I am a CA? The thought had never crossed my mind, as I was trained as an external auditor and focused on that career path. So why did I then join Standard Bank in January 2010? Because as a leader, my by-now friend had a very strong vision of what he wanted to achieve at Standard Bank, and I thought: “Wow, I would be stupid to miss out on this opportunity and not be a part of this ride.”

And to put things into perspective, 2009/2010 was just after the 2008 global financial crisis. This was a time during which many of the banks around the world failed, many jobs and livelihoods were lost, and people were trying to understand what had happened. In addition, an avalanche of new banking regulations was being rewritten to make the banking system safer.

Risk Management was the buzzword, and I had no idea what this meant. I understood almost nothing in the job description that they had shared with me. But the one thing that he said, that stuck with me was: “Why, during and after the financial crisis, did no one ask: ‘Where was Internal Audit?” And his view was that no one had asked because Internal Audit was deemed irrelevant in the banking sector, was seen as “the police” to see if you complied with policies and was staffed with people who were waiting for retirement. He wanted to change that perception and make Internal Audit relevant. In the five years that followed, under his leadership, the change was nothing short of spectacular, and it was probably one of the best career decisions I have ever made.

Q: To what extent did your studies at UP benefit you in your career and contribute to your success?

A: To a significant extent, the degrees (BCom and BCom Hons) help you to solve problems at a very technical level, across multiple disciplines. A master’s degree teaches you to reason a problem statement from various different angles, as there is often not only one correct answer to a problem, but about how you argue your case. This type of thinking and the brain patterns that form, can be applied in every aspect of life – not only in the discipline you studied in.

Lastly, the CA qualification is one of the few qualifications that really allows you to work in any industry you can imagine, because any industry, whether it is banking, mining, or fashion, is ultimately about running a business.

Q: Why did you choose your particular degree course/major(s) and did it/they meet your expectations…or, in hindsight, should you have opted for something else?

A: I was in Grade 4 when I decided that I wanted to become a Chartered Accountant (CA), even though I knew nothing about the job of a CA. The only thing I knew was that you had to be good at mathematics (and later on accounting) and that CAs were scarce (well, there were only two people in Brits, where I grew up, that I knew of, who were CAs).

One of them was a friend’s father, who worked for Coopers & Lybrandt at the time (now PwC). They had many fancy cars and went on fancy holidays. But more importantly, they helped a lot of struggling people along the way – a very generous family. And that really appealed to me.

I also have a strong creative side and had I not studied to become a CA, I would have done something more creative, like architecture.

Q: As a UP and EMS alumnus, what makes you proud to be associated with the UP?

A: As I am pretty much still in touch with the Faculty of Economic and Management Sciences, it makes me very proud that the results that come out of the CA programme, are always some of the best in the country. They produce exceptional CAs, which is evident across the market when you look at recruitment.

In addition, the campus is beautiful and there is always a sense of pride when one arrives on campus. A campus that is well maintained, is like being dressed well – it’s the first impression you make and first impressions last a very long time. A well-kept campus says that we are proud of what we do here, we are serious about what we do and how we show up to the rest of the world, and we want our students to feel at home here, and for our alumni and alumnae to see that we care.

Q: Given your academic experience at UP, what advice can you pass on to current students?

A: A couple of life lessons that have stood the test of time for me:

• Especially during my studies, when the sheer volume of work just felt overwhelming, the words of my primary school headmaster continued to inspire me. He used to say: “Just remember, the higher the mountain, the more beautiful the view.”
• Something that I would strongly encourage when thinking about one’s career, is to go for the opportunities that scare the hell out of you, where you know very little about what is being said in your job spec: the job that will really push you out of your comfort zone.
• Go for those roles where it is evident that your leader has a very strong vision for the future. Later on in your career, you have to become the leader who has that strong vision for the future and someone who people want to follow.
• Become comfortable with the fact that you will never know everything. However, you have to be willing to learn or at least know who to ask when you don’t know something. Never be afraid to ask, always be curious. When something doesn’t make sense, ask again, until you understand it. Through this learning process, you ultimately build your confidence, so that you can walk into almost any job – because you have the ability to learn and are committed to life-long learning.

Q: Going forward, what are your professional/business/personal goals? What is your ultimate ‘dream job’?

A: My business and professional goals are to keep contributing to our country. Currently, I am doing that by contributing to Absa, and through this, hopefully, not only help to grow leaders for our organisation, but also our country. I think with strong leadership in our corporate institutions, we can hopefully make a difference in our country.

I also serve on the Board of Cotlands, a non-profit organisation that focuses on early childhood development through play-based learning, and I’m the Chairman of the Audit Committee. I am passionate about this organisation, but at the same time, I am passionate about corporate governance. Organisations that are well governed are stronger and can stand the test of time – which is an area of improvement for our government institutions. If we can see a significant improvement in this space, our country will flourish again.

I don’t feel like I have an ultimate ‘dream job’ – I feel every job I have had to date has been an ultimate dream job, like the one I have at the moment. I try to live in the moment and enjoy the good and tough times of any job, because through this comes growth to prepare you for the next ‘dream job’. Whatever I am living now, is something I could only have dreamt of a couple of years ago.

Q: Which business/trade-related publications (magazines/newspapers/blogs, etc) do you enjoy reading?

A: Every morning, I read our internally circulated news briefing, which keeps me up to date with current affairs, both locally and globally. Other than that, I enjoy reading leadership books and biographies. I am currently reading: “Rise: Siya Kolisi” and “Conversations with the Z’s – The Energetics of the New Human Soul” by Lee Harris.

Q: What really inspires and motivates you personally?

A: Leaders who have a deep sense of care for their people and organisations and who are real deep thinkers. Beauty also inspires me – whether it is a beautiful piece of art, furniture or a beautiful building. I believe there is a strong correlation between happiness and surrounding yourself with beautiful things to appreciate.

Q: What is your ‘compass’ in life that keeps you ‘on track’?

A: Live to give – whether it be time, kindness or material things – and the universe will look after you. On top of that – when decisions are really tough and complex – I also stand back to figure out what the right thing is for all parties involved, including the organisation or society at large, depending on the scenario. Once you have figured out what that looks like, it is easier to stand by tough decisions and work through the noise that comes with that.

Q: If you could have a face-to-face meeting with an inspiring person - in any domain - who sets an example in transforming the world and inspiring others to do the same, who would it be and what would you like to discuss?

A: I would like to have a sit-down with Clare W Graves, who developed the emergent cyclical theory on which the model of Spiral Dynamics is based. “Spiral Dynamics describes how value systems and worldviews emerge from the interaction of “life conditions” and the mind’s capacities. The emphasis on life conditions as essential to the progression through value systems is unusual among similar theories and leads to the view that no level is inherently positive or negative, but rather a response to the local environment, social circumstances, place and time. Through these value systems, groups and cultures structure their societies and individuals integrate within them.

Each distinct set of values is developed as a response to solving the problems of the previous system. Changes between states may occur incrementally (first order change) or in a sudden breakthrough (second order change). The value systems develop in a specific order, and the most important question when considering the value system being expressed in a particular behaviour is why the behaviour occurs.” (Quoted from Wikipedia to ensure clarity of definition).

The understanding of the theory of Spiral Dynamics for ALL leaders, in how we lead (both in business and society), in my view, is a game changer for changing the world we live in. Many leaders, globally, are starting to display the values of the “yellow” value system (the first value system in the second tier, where the first tier has six value systems), without necessarily being aware of this. It is said that the “yellow” value system is the first value system that can integrate all previous value systems and get the best out of every other value system. The strength of leadership sits in its ability to acknowledge, firstly, that each person has a unique world view and that your world view is also shaped by your value system. Strength in society sits in integrating world views and value systems, as opposed to making out that one is right and another wrong, or that one is better than another.

I would like to sit down with Graves to unpack how we can raise awareness of this, globally, in order to solve the challenges we face as a human race.

Q: Tell us more about yourself, including your likes/dislikes; strengths/weaknesses, business/life philosophy.

A: I am the eldest son of four boys, born to middle-class parents and I grew up in a farming community in Brits, in the North West province. My parents, and to a large extent my mother, instilled some basic principles in our lives from a very young age:

• You must work hard for what you want in life. Nothing comes for free. 
• Always have good manners. Look people in the eye when you greet them. Greet them by their first time prefixed by either “Oom” or “Tannie”. 
• Always say “please” and “thank you”.
• Treat everyone the same – not a single person is better than another. Some are just more privileged.

I am a very loyal person. Once I have made a commitment, I honour it. To the same extent, when people don’t honour their commitments, I find it hard to deal with. I also dislike dishonesty. 

I have a passion for leadership. I became obsessed with this thing called “leadership” – the notion of what it is to be a good leader. How do you know when you are a good leader? And who decides?

Well, the one thing I learned, was that leadership is a democracy – irrespective of your position or rank or title in an organisation. Leadership is when people choose to follow you when people give you their best. Leadership is when you create an environment within which people can become their best selves. When you create an environment within which you really care about people – deeply care – and not only care about whether the work will get done, but care about how the person develops through the work and comes out on the other side as someone who has grown and who has achieved much more than what he/she ever thought possible. Care is when you can have the honest conversation because you care and because you see the blind spots. 

And as part of this journey on leadership, you will get feedback that is really hard to swallow. Feedback that doesn’t resonate with who you think you are. Feedback that you might just dismiss and say: “But this is not me.” This kind of feedback – the uncomfortable feedback – becomes the most powerful feedback if you are willing to give it time. The feedback that will push you to understand who you are as a person and as a leader. Push you to understand who you are in your natural state and who you are under stress. Self-awareness – the understanding of “self” – in my view, is one of the most important attributes any good leader should have.

Having said that, I think a weakness is when a strength is overused or used in the wrong circumstances or when you are triggered and you go into a state of “stress” (ie the prefrontal cortex shuts down and the amygdala brain, the most primal part of our human bodies, takes over), without you realising it. This is literally where the age-old saying of “count to 10” comes from: to get out of the “trap” of the amygdala and be able to respond with an open mind.

Albeit I don’t really like the word “weakness”. I think that we all have things that we are naturally good at – and each one of us is unique. The fact that I can’t do something as well as another person, doesn’t mean I am weak or have a weakness. I believe language and the words we use are critically important, especially when leading people. And we should use words appropriately.

Q: How do you manage stress/failure?

A: I am firstly very mindful of what kind of content I expose myself to. Overly negative content – whether it be the news or otherwise) or only negative content – can have an impact on your mental state. Secondly, I am always very mindful of the period that I am in during the year (workwise or otherwise).

During extremely busy periods, I am very mindful of managing my headspace. For example, when I know I have a quarterly round of board meetings coming up, I hardly plan any social engagements during that period. But when I know I am in a period that is less busy, I ensure that I catch up with friends and family, and do fun things (travel, go to restaurants, art exhibitions etc). I also ensure that I plan holidays throughout the year, even if it is just a regular trip over a long weekend. A long weekend away, taking yourself out of your day-to-day “rat race” does wonders for managing stress levels and mental health.

I have seen too often how people only have one holiday at the end of the year to look forward to. In a demanding environment, you can see how people’s energy levels start to decline as early as mid-year. This becomes a vicious circle – the more tired you are, the less effective you become, the more hours you try to work. This approach, unfortunately, doesn’t work for me. Lastly, I train six times a week for between 60 and 75 minutes. During this time, every morning, I have music playing through my AirPods, and I am just disconnected from the outside world, enjoying my training session.

Q: What are your hopes as aspirations for South Africa and its people?

A: My hopes and aspirations are hopefully not different to those of any reasonable person – that we live in a society with peace and happiness and where people feel the environment is fertile for each one of us to live up to our ambitions. For every human to have dignity and a purpose and to be able to provide for themselves and their loved ones. Where there is equal opportunity for every single person, that every child in this country has access to basic needs, including education, and that all South Africans who have left the country, could look at us and feel that it is time to come home. For families to reunite and for the country to benefit and flourish from the intellectual capital that has been built up through people who have worked abroad for many years.